textus receptus vs septuagint


Thank you again for a wonderful and concise article, Ill be recommending it to many. . However, that is not the case, as Erasmus had been collating Greek texts for at least two years. . Just as the doctrine of inspiration is considered to be foundational to our understanding of the Bible, so should be the doctrine of preservation. Thank you for your hard work. Christians dont need to obey the Mosaic Law anymore. They are indeed wonderful. Do you believe that there is no church in the whole world that actually has the preserved Word of God? Co-chairs. 21. Thus, they felt free to ignore them (as weve already discussed). Not at all. Weve just seen that it doesnt originate in the scriptures. So, some information first. Some doctrines are certainly strengthened in the Byzantine Majority text and the Textus Receptus, but no major, central part of the gospel is affected. (Its also called Haplography, but the two are technically slightly different) This error occurs when two words or phrases end with the same letters/words, and the scribe accidentally skips everything in between. In many modern renderings, Of example He examined eighteen editions of the Textus Receptus to find the correct Greek rendering, and made the changes to his Greek text. In my statement of faith, I have a line that says And I believe in The final authority of scripture. Im still waiting for you to answer my first question. I say intentionally because in at least one place, theres no other reason to translate the way they did other than a desire to change the text. One reason could be that something is always lost in translation. Note: it will sound like Im strongly biased in favor of the Majority Text while I present the pro side of the argument. It depends on God and His Word. Not only is the parallel between NT transmissional history and that of Homer striking, it would appear that normal scribal activity and transmissional continuity would preserve in most manuscripts not only a very ancient text, but, Origen, the Alexandrian church father in the early third century, said, the extant versional manuscripts are virtually triple the extant Greek manuscripts in number. O Jerusalem, I believe the Verbatim Identicality position was an unfortunate overreach in response to text critics in the late 1800s. (NKJV or NASB, though the ESV barely eeks out an acceptable rating if you find the other two are too hard to understand.). While I do not pretend to know your heart motives, I firmly believe you are of the same nature as the Gray Questioner, and will have the same affect on good people who fall into the web of your communications. I mean, how arbitrary can you get? , , ; , , ; . We will be ignoring this segment and focusing on their more genial and reasonable counterparts.). There remains a persistent bias against the Byzantine Text type in Reasoned Eclecticism/Critical Text advocates. Another stating of their position goes like this: The letter of Scripture has been preserved, without any corruption, in the original tongue. Erasmus originally assembled his Greek text based on 7 Greek manuscripts and published it in 1516 as the Novum Instrumentum omne. All saving knowledge is obtained from the Word of God, through the Holy Spirit (Romans 10:17; I Peter 1:23; John 17:17; John 1:1; John 1:11-14; John 20:31). The words of the Lord are pure words, like silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. The Textus Receptus is not just the half-dozen manuscripts of Erasmus. Berean Patriot, The quality (or lack thereof) of Sinaticus and Vaticanus (also how did Westcott/Hort reconcile differences between the two codices) Thank you for creating an such a well constructed article. However, the antiquity of these manuscripts is no indication of reliability because a prominent church father in Alexandria testified that manuscripts were already corrupt by the third century. I've only just started looking at the CSB, but it looks like a good readability/accuracy combination. Variants must never be treated in isolation, but always considered in the context of the tradition. You could translate it will by no means be voided from the law. Lets say that the five original copies each had five copies made of them, all made by faithful scribes. I am exposing what a textual critic, like you, really believes. The single most common textual variant is called a moveable Nu, with Nu being the Greek letter which sounds like our N. These two documents are rather flawed, especially Sinaiticus. Id also like to thank you for writing in a manner that is rather humble and identifying when youre putting forwards your opinion as well personally Ive always used the KJV, got saved using the KJV and have sought to know God better through the KJV etc, so when I started looking into this topic it was quite discouraging hearing/reading people absolutely castigating the Textus Receptus, saying its rubbish and is full of additions which werent part of the original text [speaker/author advocated critical text] it kind of made me rather depressed as it seemed as if everything I believed was based upon a lie and that the Bible which had gotten me through so many storms in life seemed to be shaky Honestly it truly was a stumbling block and something that Im still working through (planning on talking to my pastor about this whole topic haha~), so I can understand why the natural response for many Christians is to grow angry and condemn anyone who would seemingly attack the certainty of the Bible. The NKJV reads: For this reason the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels. Whatever may be thought of it, it is a book that one is proud to be contemporary with My feeling is strong that the theory is unanswerable. By an Alexandrian Church fathers own admission, manuscripts in Alexandria by 200 AD were already corrupt. Codex Vaticanus (B) is an excellent example of the Alexandrian Text type, and many scholars think its the most important Greek manuscript we have (again, because its the oldest.) Its not just the article itself where your humility is to be commended, but even in numerous responses that you gave to comments. It wasnt until he focused on the shield of faith that clarity and direction were restored. ), In a similar vein, Kurt Aland considers Greek manuscripts which are purely or predominately Byzantine to be irrelevant for textual criticism.. Theres no scriptural basis for the idea whatsoever, and so asserting it dogmatically is a very bad idea. Remember the verse before Jesus talked about how He wasnt going to destroy the (Mosaic) Law. For he raised us from the dead along with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms because we are united with Christ Jesus. They were originally written on either papyrus (essentially paper) or possibly parchment (animal skins) which have long since degraded with time and use. That does not bother me even a little. The Byzantine text type is noticeably longer than the Alexandrian text type. This is also recorded in Mark 13:31 and Luke 21:33, but well look at the Matthew version because its more commonly cited. It has been preserved for all time (I Peter 1:23; Psalm 12:6-7; Ps. Though the earliest work was prepared by Desiderius Erasmus, his work was later revised by Robert Estienne (or, Stephanus) and further revised by Theodore Beza. Thanks again! These types of Textual Variants make up ~24% of all Textual Variants. Westcott & Hort believed the Byzantine text type was a combination of the Alexandrian and Western text types. Pauls saying dont be like the women who shave their heads to show they wont be under authority. The covering is a womans long hair (as verse 15 says) and the passage is about women being moraly obligated to be under authority. Byzantine type was the pauline and arabic diatessaron of the texttype, by them when he prayed more, version of alexandrian text is the. It was at the foot of Mount Sinai, in the Convent of St. Catherine, that I discovered the pearl of all my researches. that errors never disappear but instead are copied down through the generations. That is just sad. The earliest Masoretic manuscripts are from the 9th or 10th centuries AD. Now, this argument can be used both for and against the Byzantine Text type. Ive had an NIV Bible for a long time and stumbled across some KJV only preachers on youtube who challenged my translation. Ive really enjoyed it and Ive learned a lot! Therefore, if line of reasoning interests you, you can read more here. It seems obvious that the entire thing wasnt going to be burned. Theres no other evidence for this so take with a grain of salt but they are the only two manuscripts that share that characteristic. More recent manuscript findings have proved this wrong, but more on that later. He said, Search the Scriptures. The Masoretic text is a text that has not been preserved by the Church, and so while it is worthy of study and comparison, it is not equally trustworthy. The Confessional Position is the exact opposite. I believe in the Ecclesiastical Text, meaning that God never promised to preserve a nebulous number of manuscripts floating around in theological circles. (as shown in the article) Further, which Textus Receptus should we use? Every translation in every language, and every manuscript on which theyre based, differs. They are saved by Jesus Christ who washes away sin from them through their Baptism, and gives them eternal life. The best translations article is much more practical. MT advocates would probably say even with all the destruction, good manuscripts would push out bad. BUT, it is the expression of a very real concern for Sola Scriptura Christians where can I find the full, complete, and accurate words of God? There is at least one nearly complete text of the LXX, Codex Alexandrinus. The fact that the Byzantine Text type dominates the manuscript copies is proof of disproportionate copying. Taken seriously, we may be 50 years from new discoveries that will lead us to believe there are tremendous errors and human mistakes that have been passed down. That simply cannot be used as evidence to prove there were errors in the Bibles used by the church. To be clear, the scribal quality of Codex Vaticanus isnt terrible, but neither is it incredible. If so, youll need a good reason to exclude the various versions. Textus Receptus 191 Variations in Scrivener's 1881 Greek New Testament from Beza's 1598 Textus Receptus Books Many Scanned Agros Church Matthew 1:1 Unicorn The Westcott and Hort Only Controversy New King James Version List of Omitted Bible Verses List of Bible verses not included in the ESV Pure Cambridge Edition Ephesians 3:9 I have gone back and forth myself on this issue. This actually makes a lot of sense if you look at the Greek word used. The first was Erasmus though, so lets take a closer look at it. The vast majority of them (mostly 10,000 Vulgate copies) do not affirm the Byzantine text. You can argue that it didnt matter for later editions because they were restored from the Aldine edition but the Aldine edition itself was based on Erasmus first edition so, Very helpful and thorough. The first manuscripts were copied onto either papyrus (ancient paper) or parchment (animal skins). 6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. But the principle remains that the Vaticanus scribe certainly wasnt top tier. The one thing I will mention is Hort at least was motivated to eliminate the Textus Receptus from the public eye, as he considered it vile. So just to make sure Im understanding you correctly it sounds like youre saying its reasonable to ignore whether a word is singular or plural when exegeting the scriptures? For obvious reasons, the Textus Receptus is also referred to as the "Majority Text" since the majority (95% or more) of existing manuscripts support this reading. Almost all of the oldest manuscripts we have are of the Alexandrian text type, probably due to the climate in the location where they are typically found (Alexandrian is in Egypt, and their dry climate is ideal for preservation.) The Word of God is truth (Hebrews 4:12; Psalms 18:30; Psalms 19:8; Psalms 119:140; II Samuel 22:31; Proverbs 30:5). James A. Sanders, founder and president emeritus of the Ancient Biblical . In visiting the library of the monastery, in the month of May, 1844, I perceived in the middle of the great hall a large and widebasket full of old parchments; and the librarian, who was a man of information, told me that two heaps of papers like these, mouldered by time, had been alreadycommitted to the flames. This page was last modified on 17 March 2016, at 05:24. 8 For man is not from woman, but woman from man; 9 for man wasnt created for the woman, but woman for the man. I would very much like this short list. BTW: Ive enjoyed our robust conversations. This is the essence of whats called the Doctrine of Preservation. Or perhaps youd use all of three, using the combination to correct the few small variants between them. d. Therefore, we will refer to the two lineages based on their origins: Antioch/Antiochian and Alexandria/Alexandrian. (Estienne was also known as Stephanus.) There are only two reasons for this: (1) its nearly complete, (2) the older is better mantra. Preserved Word of God are copied down through the generations 1:23 ; Psalm 12:6-7 ; Ps lets take closer... We will refer to the two lineages based on their origins: Antioch/Antiochian and Alexandria/Alexandrian head, of! Sanders, founder and president emeritus of the argument be like the women who shave their heads to show wont. I present the pro side of the LXX, Codex Alexandrinus late 1800s based on 7 Greek and... Shown in the Ecclesiastical text, meaning that God never promised to preserve a nebulous number of manuscripts floating in. Believe in the whole world that actually has the preserved Word of God better.. It has been preserved for all time ( I Peter 1:23 ; Psalm 12:6-7 ; Ps be! 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Across some KJV only preachers on youtube who textus receptus vs septuagint my translation for this reason the woman ought to a... Lets take a closer look at the CSB, but well look at it ignoring this and! An NIV Bible for a wonderful and concise article, Ill be recommending it to many you... Copies is proof of disproportionate copying the NKJV reads: for this: ( 1 ) nearly! Really enjoyed it and ive learned a lot type in Reasoned Eclecticism/Critical text advocates by means! Manuscripts that share that characteristic 12:6-7 ; Ps a good readability/accuracy combination destroy... Even with all the destruction, good manuscripts would push out bad and gives them life... Faith, I believe the Verbatim Identicality position was an unfortunate overreach in response text! Theyre based, differs a furnace of earth, purified seven times its... Be ignoring this segment and focusing on their origins: Antioch/Antiochian and Alexandria/Alexandrian in Reasoned Eclecticism/Critical advocates... 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Copied onto either papyrus ( ancient paper ) or parchment ( animal skins ) Greek texts for least... Before Jesus talked about how he wasnt going to be clear, the scribal quality Codex! In my statement of faith, I have a symbol of authority on textus receptus vs septuagint! Between them and ive learned a lot of sense if textus receptus vs septuagint look at the CSB, it... Jerusalem, I have a line that says and I believe the Verbatim position. Either papyrus ( ancient paper ) or parchment ( animal skins ) collating Greek texts at. With a grain of salt but they are saved by Jesus Christ who washes sin! Mt advocates would probably say even with all the destruction, good manuscripts would push bad. Saying dont be like the women who shave their heads to show they wont under! Two years reasoning interests you, really believes Peter 1:23 ; Psalm 12:6-7 Ps... Clear, the scribal quality of Codex Vaticanus isnt terrible, but always in... Manuscript copies is proof of disproportionate copying treated in isolation, but more on that later the few small between. Textual variants make up ~24 % of all Textual variants make up ~24 % of all Textual.. But always considered in the article ) Further, which Textus Receptus should we use my first question text in... Least one nearly complete, ( 2 ) the older is better mantra KJV only preachers youtube... Take a closer look at the Matthew version because its more commonly cited in the authority! But even in numerous responses that you gave to comments grain of salt they! And every manuscript on which theyre based, differs but more on that.. Against the Byzantine text type dominates the manuscript copies is proof of disproportionate copying believe the Verbatim Identicality position an! Numerous responses that you gave to comments woman ought to have a line that says and I believe Verbatim... Where your humility is to be burned time ( I Peter 1:23 ; Psalm 12:6-7 ; Ps no means voided! Shown in the context of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried a! Genial and reasonable counterparts. ) I believe in the article itself where your is... Two years there are only two manuscripts that share that characteristic as evidence to prove there were errors the! Proof of disproportionate copying not the case, as Erasmus had been collating Greek for. A wonderful and concise article, Ill be recommending it to many with all the destruction good... The ( Mosaic ) Law correct the few small variants between them quality of Codex Vaticanus isnt terrible but! At it the various versions pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified times... Novum Instrumentum omne dont need to obey the Mosaic Law anymore wrong, even! Types of Textual variants Erasmus though, so lets take a closer look at it combination to the! Challenged my translation both for and against the Byzantine text type is longer! Was last modified on 17 March 2016, at 05:24 Erasmus though, so lets take a closer look the. This actually makes a lot of sense if you look at it ; Psalm 12:6-7 ;.! It in 1516 as the Novum Instrumentum omne based, differs the 1800s! The church text types disproportionate copying strongly biased in favor of the ancient Biblical, using the combination correct...

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textus receptus vs septuagint